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ROBERT IN OHIO

Independent with strong values and political opinions
Articles Posted: 19  Links Seeded: 41
Member Since: 11/2010  Last Seen: 5/17/2012

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Ever Wonder Where Certain Phrases Originated?

Mon Feb 6, 2012 12:11 PM EST
history, humor, society, idioms, humar, language-nuance
By Robert in Ohio
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I received the following tidbits of scholastic trivia in a email and found it extremely interesting and enlightening.

No source citations were provided and I do not claim ownership of the stories nor do I attest to their veracity.  I simply found them interesting and wanted to share them.

Please share your tidbits of knowledge concerning phrases that we take for granted in our everyday conversation to enlighten us all.

In the 1400's a law was set forth in England that a man was allowed to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb.   Hence we have "the rule of thumb"

Many years ago in Scotland , a new game was invented. It was ruled “Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden”.   And thus, the word GOLF entered into the English language.

In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames by ropes.   When you pulled on the ropes, the mattress tightened, making the bed firmer to sleep on.   Hence the phrase...”Goodnight , sleep tight”

It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer and because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the honey month, which we know today as the honeymoon.

In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts... So in old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at them 'Mind your pints and quarts, and settle down.'    It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's"

Many years ago in England , pub frequenters had a whistle baked into the rim, or handle, of their ceramic cups When they needed a refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle" is the phrase inspired by this practice.

 Your comments, contributions and remarks are welcome and appreciated

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  • Groups: Centervine, Mad As Hell!! Aren't You??, The Anti-Moron League, True Americans
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  • Public Discussion (32)
Robert in Ohio

I often find myself wondering about the origins of idiomatic expressions that have become commonplace in our daily communications and when I saw this I thought it would be interesting to see what other tidbits you might share with me.

Have fun

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 12:12 PM EST
Chris-382117

From Masonic teachings, we get "On the Level" regarding one's integrity and "on the Square" or "Square Deal" meaning honesty. The "3rd Degree" also comes from the severe and lengthy test to become a Master Mason.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:34 PM EST
Chris-382117

Robert,

Here is another one that you mighty like.it has been exposed as just a joke on snoops, but it is still funny anyway.

The 'Car Talk' show (on NPR) with Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers, have a feature called the 'Puzzler'. On one of their shows years ago, the "Puzzler" was about the Battle of Agincourt. The French, who were overwhelmingly favored to win the battle, threatened to cut a certain body part off of all captured English soldiers so that they could never fight again. The English won in a major upset and waved the body part in question at the French in defiance. The puzzler was: What was this body part? The following is the answer submitted by a listener:

Dear Click and Clack,

Thank you for the Agincourt 'Puzzler', which clears up some profound questions of etymology, folklore and emotional symbolism. The body part which the French proposed to cut off of the English after defeating them was, of course, the middle finger, without which it is impossible to draw the renowned English longbow. This famous weapon was made of the native English yew tree, and so the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking yew". Thus, when the victorious English waved their middle fingers at the defeated French, they said, "See, we can still pluck yew! PLUCK YEW!"

Over the years some 'folk etymologies' have grown up around this symbolic gesture. Since "pluck yew" is rather difficult to say (like "pleasant mother pheasant plucker", which is who you had to go to for the feathers used on the arrows), the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodental fricative 'f', and thus the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger-salute are mistakenly thought to have something to do with an intimate encounter. It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird".

  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:45 PM EST
Robert in Ohio

Chris

Informative and hilarious

Thanks

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:55 PM EST
scar_tissue

Amusing it may be; true it isn't. Debunked by Snopes.

And it's totally possible to shoot a longbow lacking a middle finger. One uses one's entire hand to draw the bow, not just a single finger.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 5:20 AM EST
Robert in Ohio

and I continue to learn new things

    #1.5 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 7:49 AM EST
    Reply
    SCTexan

    The whole nine yards

    I understand that this comes from length of a machine gun belt. Hence - "give them the whole nine yards."

    • 2 votes
    Reply#2 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 12:57 PM EST
    Chris-382117

    Another possibility is that it refers to the old 3 masted ships that had 3 sails per mast. To have all sails into the wind would be known as the "Whole Nine Yards".

    That is also where we get the term "3 sheets to the wind". The actual saying is "3 sheets into a 2 sheet wind" meaning that you had "a little too much aboard".

    • 3 votes
    #2.1 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:26 PM EST
    Robert in Ohio

    SC Texan

    I have heard that one now that you bring it up

    Chris

    Two more good ones

    • 1 vote
    #2.2 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:57 PM EST
    Reply
    Runner99

    I never did understand where "drink like a fish" or "cock and bull story" thingy started. However, I think the two might be related. LOL!

    • 2 votes
    Reply#3 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 1:49 PM EST
    Robert in Ohio

    Runner

    Not sure how they are related, perhaps someone will pop in with an explanation of the origin of those two phrases

    • 2 votes
    #3.1 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:58 PM EST
    scar_tissue

    Cock & bull. Could be several origins.

    Drink like a fish. B/c their mouths are always open.

    • 1 vote
    #3.2 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 5:26 AM EST
    Robert in Ohio

    thanks

      #3.3 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 7:55 AM EST
      Reply
      peapod

      I was watching modern marvels this weekend about salt. They mentioned that salt was used as currency in the slave trade. Hence the expression, "that man is not worth his salt".

      I love learning the history of sayings. My parents and therfore I use old timey saying all the time and recently I've started looking them up because it comes out of my mouth and I think, how does that make sense, and straight to google I go.

      Recently I looked up "What in sam hill...". Apparently Sam Hill, a miner and surveyor was extremely liberal in his use of curse words. He was beloved by the locals for his assistance during a food shortage, and was immortalized by their use of his name substituted for curse words. As the legend goes.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#4 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:03 PM EST
      Robert in Ohio

      peapod

      Now there are two that I will stump the fellas at our weekly book club or I mean study group oh well when we get together for beers at the VFW.

      • 3 votes
      #4.1 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:00 PM EST
      scar_tissue

      Saying someone is *below the salt* ot *sitting below the salt* comes from medieval times, when salt (indeed, all spices) was expensive & only affordable to the wealthy. At that time the nobility sat at the high table Up on a dais) & their commoner attendants & servants at lower tables (on the floor). Salt was placed in the middle of the high table. Only those of rank had access to it. Thus everyone else was *below the salt*.

      • 1 vote
      #4.2 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 5:29 AM EST
      Robert in Ohio

      Sounds like the kids table at grandmother's house when we were kids

        #4.3 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 7:57 AM EST
        Reply
        merleliz

        I've got some for you, Robert...all of mine are horse related though!

        Ever heard the phrase "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"? It comes from the days when unscrupulous horse traders would lie about a horse's age...but looking at the horse's teeth could tell you that the horse was older than the trader said, because of the wear on the teeth.

        "Starting from scratch" refers to the lines drawn in the sand indicating where the horses had to stand at the start of the race.

        "Riding roughshod" over someone refers to a practice of leaving the nails in a horse's shoe protruding slightly...painful to the horse and anyone they happened to step on, I'm sure! (Having a horse step on you is pretty darn painful when they are barefoot, I can't imagine it with loose nails in a shoe!)

        Oh, and speaking of barefoot..."perpetually barefoot and pregnant" originally referred to broodmares, they aren't shod because they aren't ridden, and they have an eleven month gestation period.

        "Rode hard and put up wet" is a phrase used in the South to indicate that someone looks older than his age...putting a hot and sweaty horse up without cooling him down and drying him out causes arthritis in horses.

        This is fun, Robert!

        • 2 votes
        Reply#5 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:36 PM EST
        Robert in Ohio

        merleliz

        I love horses and so does my brother in law, I will be sure and share these with him and see if he has anymore to add

        • 1 vote
        #5.1 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:43 PM EST
        Reply
        etva

        Enjoyed the article and learned a few things:)

          Reply#6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:04 AM EST
          Robert in Ohio

          etva

          I did as well, thanks for stopping by

          • 1 vote
          #6.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:34 AM EST
          Reply
          Anna-90776

          That was fun. I'm running with them even they aren't true! Thanks Robert☺

            Reply#7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:23 PM EST
            Robert in Ohio

            Anna

            Thanks for stopping by

            • 1 vote
            #7.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:29 PM EST
            Reply
            oldfogey

            Robert in Ohio, where does the phrase come from? Probably West by God Virginia, most Ohioans come from there.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#8 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:42 PM EST
            Robert in Ohio

            oldfogey

            A lot do, my father's family came from Virginia via Charleston WV as they settled in Ohio in the early 1900's

            • 1 vote
            #8.1 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:59 AM EST
            oldfogey

            I was born near Weirton. Been an Ohioan for over 70 years except when I wasn't.

            • 1 vote
            #8.2 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:27 AM EST
            Robert in Ohio

            Oldfogey

            I was born and grew up in the Martins Ferry area

            All the family moved to Florida and elsewhere after I went in the service in 1971

            We came back when I retired last year and live in a wonderful little village in the middle of nowhere surrounded by farms, lakes and little towns and villages.

            Born a Buckeye and will die a Buckeye, though I have lived all over the world these past 60 years.

            • 1 vote
            #8.3 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:33 AM EST
            merleliz

            Here's one for you? Know where the term "old fogey" came from?

            ⇒ The word is said to be connected with the German vogt, a guard or protector. By others it is regarded as a diminutive of folk (cf. D. volkje). It is defined by Jamieson, in his Scottish Dictionary, as "an invalid or garrison soldier," and is applied to the old soldiers of the Royal Hospital at Dublin, which is called the Fogies' Hospital. In the fixed habits of such persons we see the origin of the present use of the term. Sir F. Head.
            ~ Definition by Webster 1913

              #8.4 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:36 PM EST
              oldfogey

              I fit right in!

              • 2 votes
              #8.5 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:49 PM EST
              Robert in Ohio

              me too!

              Thanks merleliz

              • 1 vote
              #8.6 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:41 AM EST
              Reply
              Shelby Davenport

              I heard that the phrase, "Raining cats & dogs" came from the old English countryside days when the roofs of homes were made of straw, covering up the slats on the roof. The cats or dogs would go up on the roof and burrow under the straw to stay warm. They'd fall asleep and manage to fall between the slats. Hence, it was raining cats and dogs.

              • 2 votes
              Reply#9 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:02 PM EST
              Robert in Ohio

              Shelby

              Now that is an interesting one that I had never heard before.

              That one definitely goes on the top 10 list

              • 1 vote
              #9.1 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:00 AM EST
              Reply
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